Skip navigation
This discussion is archived

This Question is Answered (go to answer)

2,440 Views 10 Replies Last post: Feb 27, 2012 9:01 PM by mashadutoit RSS
Level 0 15 posts since
Feb 26, 2012
Currently Being Moderated

Feb 26, 2012 11:27 PM

Newbie questions about images: "show through" and vectors :)

Hi there

Am in the process of formatting my first createspace book. Am using Indesign and the 5x8  template that I downloaded from here:http://www.selfpub.info/templates/book-templates-for-indesign.html

 

My questions are about images.  My book is a fiction book with some illustrations.  They images are black and white with some quite large areas of black.

 

I'm planning to print to the cream paper.

 

The images themselves are illustrator (vector) images that I've placed in the Indesign document, and two of them are 300dpi Photoshop documents (raster) CMYK.

 

Is there anything I need to watch out for?  Should I worry about "show through" with text on the other side of the page?

 

An example image (hope is shows up!)

 

Level 5 14,256 posts since
Sep 5, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
2. Feb 27, 2012 9:23 AM in response to: mashadutoit
Re: Newbie questions about images: "show through" and vectors :)

The only thing you can do about show through is to anticipate it, but a lot depends on your book. If an image can only go in one place related to the text, you live with it. Otherwise you can place images back to back on the same leaf, or where there might be blank space on the opposite side of the leaf.  Some books used to have separate image pages, with either nothing on the back side, or another image.  (I don't see this as much these days.)

 

If your art uses Photoshop Black (C75 M68 Y67 K90), or any other value black where K is not 100, it may be screened and will therefore look less than 100% black, especially if it is near art that was created use some color including K-100.  My tests using PS Black and other rich blacks demonstrate this both in text (vector), and raster art.

 

What program do you use to create PDFs?  This, too, will effect whether your black is 100% or screened.

 

Walton

Disclaimer: all statements of apparent fact in this post are empirical inferences based on observational data. These are idiosyncratic in nature and have not necessarily been subject to verification. Build Your Book, a free, 98 page guide to designing your book;  CS Digital understand CS digital possibilities; GIMP, free, tutorials, GIMP, GIMP Help, excerpts from GIMP Supremacy Supremacy;  Bleeds, free, 19 page, illustrated guide to bleeds and margins, do's and don't's for CreateSpace;  Contact for graphics, design, and typesetting help. 


Level 5 14,256 posts since
Sep 5, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
3. Feb 27, 2012 9:38 AM in response to: walton
Re: Newbie questions about images: "show through" and vectors :)

Here is an example of two rich blacks and black only. These were CMYK art that CS printed in color and in black and white (converted by CS when printing). This is the black and white version.

 

 

The black on the at the left was a C70 M35 Y40 K100. The PS Black was C75 M68 Y67 K100. The little bit in the lower left corner was 100% black only, C00 M00 Y00 K100. The blue lines indicate units of 10 halftone dots, therefore 106 lpi.

 

Walton

Disclaimer: all statements of apparent fact in this post are empirical inferences based on observational data. These are idiosyncratic in nature and have not necessarily been subject to verification.

Level 5 9,269 posts since
Aug 22, 2008
Currently Being Moderated
5. Feb 27, 2012 10:43 AM in response to: mashadutoit
Re: Newbie questions about images: "show through" and vectors :)

With the digital presses used for print-on-demand books, the ink/toner is fused to the surface of the paper, rather than being absorbed into the fibers -- so "show-through" is actually less of a problem than it would be with the same paper on an offset press (or ink jet printer).  You can run a test using multipurpose 20# bond paper in white or cream with a smooth finish (most stores that carry office supplies will have it, and it's very close to the same properties as the paper CS uses).

 

The image sample you linked appears to be black-only line art, and if that's the case, and if it is being embedded in the PDF as an image file rather than vector art for a black-and-white interior book, then I would convert it to a 1-bit monochrome image at 2400 dpi, rather than color or grayscale image at 300 dpi.

 

As for things to watch out for, large areas of a solid black can be a challenge for many of the digital presses that are used to print black-and-white interior pages -- and if conditions are less than ideal (e.g., maintenance isn't being performed on schedule, paper wasn't stored or handled properly, etc.), then problems can start to show up in books with that type of artwork before they'd be apparent in regular text-only books.  Some members who've produced graphic novels as black-and-white interior books here have expressed frustration with the number of print defects (i.e., banding, streaking, etc.) they see.

 

Hope that helps.  Best wishes.

Level 5 9,269 posts since
Aug 22, 2008
Currently Being Moderated
7. Feb 27, 2012 11:35 AM in response to: mashadutoit
Re: Newbie questions about images: "show through" and vectors :)

Vector objects are processed at the RIP much the same as text objects that use embedded fonts -- so if you can use vector art, then that's preferred/superior (and should yield few, if any, problems).

 

My preference (for a black-and-white interior book) is to convert everything to grayscale and adjust settings on my end to get the best soft-proof rendering I can, and include only DeviceGray colorspace in the PDF -- as opposed to submitting a PDF with color profiles that CreateSpace will have to convert for black-only printing.  That's not how everyone here does it, but it works best for me in terms of predictability and consistency from book to book, month to month, and printer to printer.

Level 5 14,256 posts since
Sep 5, 2009
Currently Being Moderated
8. Feb 27, 2012 11:46 AM in response to: mashadutoit
Re: Newbie questions about images: "show through" and vectors :)

High Ink Coverage

Although I have experienced some problems in the last few months with color printing, and there is https://www.createspace.com/en/community/message/154503#154503,  I have printed 6.5 x 8.5 solid areas of Registration Black (400% TIC),  Photoshop Black (290%), 12 different colors all at 290%, these have been  printed perhaps half a dozen times for me, and I have not seen any  problems with "large solid black." Less formally (in terms of tests), I've printed over a thousand full 8 x 10 pages of Photoshop black, with a line of text reversed out, and a 2 x 3 to 5 x 6 (roughly) color picture on them, with no problems at all.

 

Banding Streaks

There have been a few complaints about banding streaks last year (with photos, so there is no question about them).

 

I have been unable to duplicate them using colors totalling less than 30%, in fact, less than 24%.  You will find some speculation about them here: https://www.createspace.com/en/community/message/148380#148380.

 

1 bit art

I have run tests  with 1bit art and saw no practical difference between 800dpi to 2400dpi .  . . at least nothing that couldn't be explained by the haphazzard  effect of a droplet of ink landing one "paper fiber" differently from  another. If size isn't a problem, and if you go this route, there's no reason not to use 2400dpi, but it doesn't appear necessary.

 

PDF

CS will print from what seems like any PDF (any preset from Acrobat, and any PDF from any conversion program).  PDF/X is the recommended preset for printing. It converts RGB to CMYK.  All things being equal, CS prints grayscale work best from CMYK, and PDF/X gives you that.  If your work is basically like what you linked to, then this really doesn't matter.

 

What might be critical is the question of Photoshop Black/halftone screening and 100% black, as I noted above.  In that regard, although you did not answer what program you use to convert, from full color work with 100% black text, Acrobat, Word (although there are other problems with using Word for images), OpenOffice, and NitroPDF all will give you K100 or the equivalent RGB, whereas, doPDF, PrimoPDF, and PDF995 all will give Phototshop black, thus screened blacks.

 

Proof

Although printing your work on cream paper in grayscale will give you a great idea of what's what, for under $8 you can throw together a book with test images, 24 pages, simple cover (with a throw-away title) and the CS free ISBN, you can answer all your questions with the real thing.

 

Walton

Actions

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...