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68,765 Views 58 Replies Last post: Dec 2, 2012 7:37 AM by walton RSS Go to original post
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Level 5 19,154 posts since
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45. Sep 25, 2012 8:16 PM in response to: Chaz
Re: wrong color

My quest to understand how CS prints is based on my experience that CS can and does print dead on--although I have received a few duds, and I've taken pains to post scans of the issues.

 

  • I have some experience in printing, graphics arts, etc., does that give me an advantage?
  • Do do anything with regard to prepress that is different?
  • Is the work I print in color somehow different?
    • color palette
    • color space
    • style
    • content
  • Are my eyes unable to differentiate color?
  • Are my aesthetic standards lower than other?

 

And the same sort of questions can be asked of everyone who reports that CS has printed a job poorly.

 

I do not doubt that everyone who has posted about problems with quality has in fact had those problems.  Rhetorical: Why do you  have problems with 7 proofs of a cover, when I have the opposite experience?  What is different? 

 

Walton

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46. Sep 26, 2012 8:46 AM in response to: R.C.
Re: wrong color

But here is the problem:

 

CS printed a full color book earlier this summer that is 100% identical to the same book printed by Booksurge 10+ years ago.  So somehow or someway they can do that.  Perfectly.  And that is what we should expect and demand.

 

If the presses are set up correctly, if the pressmen are adequately trained, if CS supports proper maintenance and calibration procedures: that is the promise of p-o-d . . . and CS can deliver on that promise.

 

CS has much more control over the print environment than most standard commercial offset printers.  In fact, what Indigo says is, "We have complete control over the print environment." 

 

Walton

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47. Sep 26, 2012 2:04 PM in response to: lilyleaf
Re: wrong color

Hi everyone

 

After your advice last night I sent an email to Support and today received a very professionally worded email which included: "As this manufacturing error is not typical, I would like to gather further details..." (how typical is typical?) and they want pictures, as expected, so I'll see what I can scan. I'll keep you informed.

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48. Sep 26, 2012 2:19 PM in response to: Zinda2
Re: wrong color

Do as good a job as you can scanning and preparing files--I like putting them in a PDF, which lets you include text.

 

This is just a general comment, not aimed at you, we need to be better customers.  If something is wrong, show how it is wrong.  We can't expect CS to stand by its guarantee ( https://www.createspace.com/Special/Help/Rights/Guarantee.jsp ) if we just say, "It sucks."

 

Several members have posted scans of problems, and while that is no guarantee of anything, and several have had issues that have spanned months . . . I would bet that without the scans, the issues would be taking considerably longer to resolve.

 

Let us know what happens.

 

Walton

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49. Sep 26, 2012 3:15 PM in response to: walton
Re: wrong color

Mmm... both my and my cheap scanner's technology might not be up to this. I shall take a digital photo in daylight in the morning and see how that turns out. I do understand about explaining as proficiently as possible.

 

I also scanned at 800dpi and then blew up the pixels as advised, but they seem aligned fine so I don't think it is that.

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50. Sep 26, 2012 3:24 PM in response to: Zinda2
Re: wrong color

If the dots look okay . . . one book compared to the other . . . then that rules out misregistration, but not over or under inking.  Anyway, the better you can do  . . . well, the better.

 

My cheap scanner (part of a printer/copier/scanner from Cannon for $90, does a good job if I scan at 1200 dpi).

 

Walton

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51. Sep 26, 2012 3:43 PM in response to: walton
Re: wrong color

I scanned it in at 1200 and looked at it at 100% and the dots still look okay, so I guess it is either high contrast or over inking. I'll see if I can get a decent photo and make a single image showing both, or three shots. I am looking at my first book proof, btway, so comparing what I sent digitally to CS with what I received in a single hard copy.

 

Thanks for all your advice. I'm going to sit the sack.

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52. Oct 15, 2012 1:07 PM in response to: Zinda2
Re: wrong color

Hi everyone. Just giving an update on the problems with CSpace printing my cover.

 

As expected following your advice there was a lot of toing and froing with CS Support, but the final analysis was that the cover had printed "within variance", so I went back to my cover designer to ask her advice. As luck would have it I was the second client to contact her in a week. Whereas my cover was colour saturated, the other client's was bleached.

 

After I'd explained, she took her copy of the original cover, separated the elements and tweaked. I could see a good difference in the two, so uploaded the new version and today have received the second proof. It's better. It certainly doesn't look the same as what was uploaded, but it is acceptable to me and I'm going with it. Sure I could be more fastidious, but I could also be doing so as Christmas, and I don't see the point in that. As my son commented, considering what passed for a cover on the original publisher's paperback, it looks fantastic.

 

I want to thank you all for your help and advice. It made me much more confident in tackling this issue.

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53. Nov 5, 2012 4:58 PM in response to: lilyleaf
Re: wrong color

I've had the same problem with cover color. All the hours I spent choosing title colors that would compliment my cover photo, and all the hours being picky with the graphic designer's samples-- were for naught. I have received 4 proofs from the printer and two have been close to the accurate golden butterscotch color that should match the sand on the beach, and the other two are more of a dark red color (which I don't like). All of them are too dark. (This problem is in addition to the spine which has been wrapped wrong 3 out of 4 times, but which they tell me they don't guarantee within 1/16".)

 

I was told by another author that CreateSpace has problems with color, because they use RGB instead of the superior CMYK process. (I have a letter to them asking if this is true). My designer used the CMYK process, which they said was fine in their instructions, but perhaps it's not compatible. (Can anybody comment on this?) I also find the front and back covers to be darker and more saturated than need be on all 4 copies, so I assume that's the nature of the CreateSpace printing beast. (Next book, I will make everything lighter in advance.)

 

At this point, I am so far behind publishing this book that I may have to put my perfectionism aside and roll the presses. At least my interior is finally the way I like it, which was a monumental feat. Let's hope that CreateSpace gets so big and successful that they can afford better printing presses and binding equipment in the near future!

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54. Nov 5, 2012 6:55 PM in response to: KidfreeKaye
Re: wrong color

RGB (red, green, blue) is the color mode for your eyes, transmitted light (your monitor), cameras, scanners, and the default color mode for most graphics programs.  It's an additive system, all color is white; no color is black. CMY (cyan, magenta, yellow) is a subtractive system, no color is white, all color is black. It, with black (K), is the system used for printing. It is used for reflective art. 

 

Neither is necessarily superior.

 

CS prints best from sRGB if that's what you've worked in.  CS prints best from CMYK if that's what you've worked in.  However, simply converting RGB to CMYK without any color correction is inferior if the original RGB work contains colors that would be out-of-gamut.

 

Covers that are high in yellow tend to show metameristic failure: that is a where two colors that appear to be identical under one light--metamers--look different under a different light--metameristic failure. What I've observed show a shift towards excess cyan or green.  I have never seen this with interiors.  (My apologies for over simplifying this.)

 

Unless you have a calibrated monitor or have experience with it and printed output, monitors are unreliable. Monitors are usually uncalibrated and way too bright: so we experience shifts  and darker color. 

 

Also, the shadow details and very dark color shift noticably over a 1-2 week period after printing: generally, some detail appears as the ink oxidizes (I assume it is oxidation, although I don't know for sure). 

 

Whether any of this is relevant or not to your problems, I don't know.

 

Walton

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55. Nov 26, 2012 3:46 PM in response to: walton
Re: wrong color

I've dealt with color issues for months, with pdfs uploaded (red) turning almost brown once they hit CS. I built the cover using Book Cover Pro, which saves the file in a bcv format and generates pdf, jpg, or png. Everyone here was wonderful with my questions (especially Walton), but I couldn't fix it until a few weeks ago. I created the bcv cover, generated it as a 600 dpi png, then opened another bcv file, dropped the png into it, and generated a pdf. I've probably lost everyone by now, but it worked. Almost.

 

For the first time the digital proof was picture perfect (red), as was the thumbnail on CS. I ordered a proof with good & bad news. The red was finally perfect and the lettering crystal clear. The bad news was that the front has seven long and wide white "triangle" areas across it. The back cover printed only two thin strips of the actual cover; the rest is solid white (unprinted). I asked CS why the printers would send a proof that was clearly in error. After five days, they say they've found the problem. A new proof's in the mail, no cost. Fingers crossed, but wow...

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56. Nov 26, 2012 3:57 PM in response to: geetarkord
Re: wrong color

I have hard enough time figuring out why I'm not supposed to accept those seconds or thirds on the stuffing (even when I pass on that marshmallow orange glop) . . . let alone some color stuff.  Seriously, though, I have no idea about bcv files or Book Cover Pro, but over the years I have noticed lots of funny things with PNG files . . . I am suspicious of the alpha channel, but again, that's just a wild guess.

 

If you try to figure out how we see a simulation of CMYK on RGB monitors, or print CMYK on our home printers from RGB, and get surprised by what CS prints, or PDF images that do not match the original but the CS printed piece does . . . . I think it's Dee who has been quoted once or twice as saying, "Yikes!"

 

Let us know how the next proof turns out.

 

Walton

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57. Dec 2, 2012 7:07 AM in response to: walton
Re: wrong color

Follow-up: CS generated a free proof (after the "White Triangle Incident"), and it came out perfectly. I pushed the book to Amazon that same day (30 November), and it was available the next day. I ordered some author's copies for family/friends, and have every digit crossed while I wait for them to arrive (please CS: no triangles).

 

The community pages here are wonderful, with lots of great cross-talk about problems AND victories while creating interiors and covers. Thank you, everyone, for trying to keep it positive while we research/work out each other's unique situations. More directly: thank you, Walton; your upbeat help and positive thoughts were tremendous.

 

Richard Fenwick

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58. Dec 2, 2012 7:37 AM in response to: geetarkord
Re: wrong color

Thank you . . . I'm not so sure I always manage upbeat.  You must have caught me on a good day.

 

Your comment about how "we research/work out each other's unique situations" is interesting.  If you went to the average four-color printer, you wouldn't feel as if you had to do research.  You would get answers, both detailed and to the point.  You would know something of how to deal with other printers and a lot about how to deal with that particular printer.

 

How different is CS!  I don't mean to squander a good quote, and from Churchill, no less, but "It's a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."

 

Glad I could help,

 

Walton

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