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Level 0 11 posts since
Nov 15, 2016
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May 11, 2017 9:04 AM

PCIP or LCIP through Copyright submission?

Dear Createspace Community,

 

While I have been a frequent visitor to the community, it is my first time posting.

 

I am almost ready to publish my first children's book and am debating on whether to obtain a PCN and have someone create a CIP block or not. I am also planning on submitting my work to the copyright office but can't figure out the timing of either one for the reasons/questions below.


I've heard that when you submit your work to the copyright office, that work will automatically be sent to LoC, and you would possibly be able to obtain a LCCN and CIP in the end.

 

1) How long does this process usually take (to know whether your work was catalogued)

 

2) Is is better to go through this process and wait for the results instead of getting a PCIP first?

 

3) If I get a PCIP (register for a PCN and have somebody create a CIP), would that affect my chances of getting a LCIP (which from my understanding appears more legitimate!?), or rather,

 

4) What happens if you already have a PCIP and then LoC choses your book for cataloging? Does the PCIP get replaced with a LCIP?

 

Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

Secci 

Level 5 12,993 posts since
Aug 22, 2008
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1. May 11, 2017 9:38 AM in response to: Secchi
Re: PCIP or LCIP through Copyright submission?

If the book will be print-on-demand only, then there is virtually no chance that the LoC will ever select it for cataloging or for addition to their permanent collection.

 

So you would first apply to the PCN program (if you haven't already), then once accepted (not sure how long that process takes now), apply for a PCN. I think it took four days to get a PCN the last time I did it (in February).

 

Once you had the PCN, you would provide it and the other necessary info to your cataloging librarian, who would create and deliver your PCIP block for you to include on your book's copyright page, and create and upload the MARC records to the appropriate databases.

 

I formally register the copyright when I publish the book, which requires the submission of two best edition deposit copies to the LoC within 90 days.

 

If the LoC did eventually select the book for their permanent collection, they would create their own catalog record and CIP block. It would supplement, rather than replace, the database record your cataloging librarian created.

Level 5 12,993 posts since
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3. May 11, 2017 12:04 PM in response to: Secchi
Re: PCIP or LCIP through Copyright submission?

Self-published does not necessarily mean print-on-demand. (Yeah, it probably does here in most cases, but not in the trade as a whole).

 

From the LoC:

The CIP Program is limited to works most likely to be widely acquired by the nation's libraries. On-demand books are published in small numbers and are seldom widely acquired by the nation's libraries at the time of the initial print run. When an on-demand title is widely acquired by libraries, a catalog record is generally available from other libraries or networks [consequently, there's no need for the LoC to create a supplemental record].

 

Remember, the LCCN does not identify a book, it identifies the catalog record associated with the book.

Level 1 239 posts since
Oct 6, 2014
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4. May 16, 2017 11:36 PM in response to: Secchi
Re: PCIP or LCIP through Copyright submission?

Secchi wrote:

 

Dear Lighthouse24,

 

Thank you so much for your quick response.

 

The reason why I decided to post was because I was searching the web for answers and stumbled upon a website that said the chance of self publishers getting accepted into the LCCN program was actually 50 -50, a lot more than I imagined. I started thinking of giving it a shot through the copyright office to save the cost of having a CIP block created.

Let's be very clear on the timing: both PCN and CIP are IN PUBLICATION, the LCCN or bibliographic data printed in the book. Copyright registration takes place after publication. One of the two copies of the book you submit gets considered for acquisition. If acquired, LC will create a bibliographic record, which I guess you could print in subsequent printings of the book, but that's not CIP.

 

Since you're interested in PCIP, once again let me recommend Library Cataloging Solutions as they are only $18 per book, prepaid, and will accept your manuscript in any convenient format and in any of 35 major languages. Make sure you request both Dewey and LC call numbers and Sears and LC subject headings; LC CIP doesn't provide Sears subject headings. I don't know what subject heading scheme is commonly used for children's books in libraries. LCS won't assign BISAC children and youth categories, so do that yourself.

 

Sign up for PCN, which takes one business day, then apply for the PCN for your title. Place both the ISBN and LCCN (correctly abbreviated so the librarian will notice them) on the copyright page of your manuscript; this will be replaced by the PCIP data block.

 

I'm sorry that other Web site misled you. Either you qualify for CIP through LC, which is US place of publication, three books written by three different authors that you tell them were sold to 100 libraries each (they don't check the number of sales but they do verify that the books were published by you), or you don't qualify. I asked for an exception myself, having submitted any number of books for CIP, for a new publisher, but they refused, but PCIP is perfectly acceptable.

 

If you anticipate library sales, PCIP is a prerequisite.

Level 1 239 posts since
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5. May 16, 2017 11:51 PM in response to: Secchi
Re: PCIP or LCIP through Copyright submission?

Secchi wrote:

 

. . .

 

3) If I get a PCIP (register for a PCN and have somebody create a CIP), would that affect my chances of getting a LCIP (which from my understanding appears more legitimate!?), or rather,

 

4) What happens if you already have a PCIP and then LoC choses your book for cataloging? Does the PCIP get replaced with a LCIP?

Don't say "LCIP"; just CIP.

 

PCN and CIP refer to what gets printed in the book, on the copyright page, so after publication, it's too late for CIP. If LC acquires the book, they'd incorporate PCIP into their own catalog record, which then becomes available to libraries around the world. Any library acquiring the book would likely submit the bibliographic record to OCLC WorldCat, a union catalog for nearly all of the nation's libraries. If you're unfamiliar with it, use it at your local public library. Once it's in a bibliographic database at LC or WorldCat, then other libraries will have access to the bibligraphic record.

 

Who uses PCIP and CIP? Libraries with small collections and specialty collections that must enter the bibliographic record into their own database. A few still type up catalog cards. Larger libraries with catalog systems will try to hunt down an electronic bibliographic record.

Level 1 239 posts since
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8. May 17, 2017 12:01 PM in response to: Secchi
Re: PCIP or LCIP through Copyright submission?

Secchi wrote:

 

As for your suggestion, I was actually thinking of Five Rainbows Cataloging because they also provide you with a Marc record and Worldcat listing.

MARC21 is the format in which a bibliographic record is entered and maintained in a library catalog system, maintained by LC and used by most libraries. WorldCat is a union catalog. There would be no WorldCat listing until a library acquires your book. I know of no practical way for a publisher to distribute MARC21 records, sorry. The only thing I can think of is if you were to persuade a children's librarian to acquire your book, you might tell them that your contractor already created a bibliographic record in MARC21 format, if they're set up to provide it to a library on an individual basis.

 

Your contractor would create a MARC21 record and then output that as PCIP data, which you print in your book. As the format is standardized, it's straightforward for the first acquiring library to create the bibliographic record in its own catalog. The acquiring library is responsible for submitting the bibliographic record to WorldCat, which they'd do on their schedule.

 

What you want is ONIX. If you published 100 new titles a year, you'd submit ONIX messages to R.R. Bowker. There is a translation table from ONIX to MARC21 which libraries might use. A handful of very large publishers submit ONIX messages on a regular basis to LC, which greatly speeds up CIP.

I've already chosen my BISAC codes but I'm not quite sure what to do with them. Is this something that I check off at the end when uploading my title, or, is this information to be printed or stored elsewhereb as well? I'm sorry it this is a basic question...

Make sure you choose correctly from among Juvenile (up to age 11 or preschool to Grade 6) versus Young Adult (over age 12 or Grades 7-12). BISAC is a suggestion to a physical bookstore on shelving your book with like items. Put the Subject (not the code) on Cover 4 (back cover or back of book jacket on a hardcover book), usually lower left-hand corner. Bookland EAN with ISBN above is printed at the bottom of Cover 4; CS will center it.

 

So your library contractor will notice BISAC, print it in the manuscript on the copyright page near ISBN and LCCN. Then it can be entered into the MARC21 record and output as PCIP. With PCIP, remember that this replaces BISAC, ISBN, and LCCN on the copyright page in the final electronic galley sent to the printer. Generally, libraries shouldn't use BISAC but there are a number that do, which in my opinion is a huge disservice to their patrons. You don't want to look for an accounting book on a narrow subtopic among hundreds of accounting books that your library owns with just a BISAC subject search.

Level 1 239 posts since
Oct 6, 2014
Currently Being Moderated
9. May 17, 2017 1:21 PM in response to: a-h-k
Re: PCIP or LCIP through Copyright submission?

This discussion with Secchi reminded me to update the BISAC portion of my cataloging memo to note the 2016 edition, and to make some other changes. All the advice I have for publishers on cataloging and identification of books is here:

 

Cataloging and identification of books

Level 1 239 posts since
Oct 6, 2014
Currently Being Moderated
11. May 19, 2017 7:49 AM in response to: Secchi
Re: PCIP or LCIP through Copyright submission?

That's very interesting. After you obtain PCIP, I'd be interested to check that out if you could give me a head's up.

 

Have you gone through PCN yet? You'll need to do that after you assign your ISBN but before you go through PCIP.

[url=https://catalogingforpublishers.com/]Cataloging for Publishers[/url] will teach you: [list]To prepare your book for sale to libraries by getting your book cataloged - PCN/LCCN, ONIX, MARC21[/list] [list]To prepare your book for retail sale: ISBN, identifying your title and maintaining sales information with R.R. Bowker [i]Books In Print[/i] and [i]Bookwire[/i], Bookland EAN barcode, BISAC[/list]

Level 1 239 posts since
Oct 6, 2014
Currently Being Moderated
12. May 19, 2017 8:23 AM in response to: Secchi
Re: PCIP or LCIP through Copyright submission?

That's very interesting. After you obtain PCIP, I'd be interested to check that out if you could give me a head's up.

 

Have you gone through PCN yet? You'll need to do that after you assign your ISBN but before you go through PCIP.


Cataloging for Publishers will teach you:

    To prepare your book for sale to libraries by getting your book cataloged — PCN/LCCN, ONIX, MARC21
    To prepare your book for retail sale: ISBN, identifying your title and maintaining sales information with R.R. Bowker Books In Print and Bookwire, Bookland EAN barcode, BISAC

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